She has gone on to make countless appearances in games and is always seen cheering for her sons. View more / View less Facts of Christina Catherine Slatinsky. Tina was at CSU from 1987 through 1991 pursuing her Bachelor's Degree. Lonzo is the eldest, LiAngelo is their middle child, and the youngest among the three is LaMelo. The two of them eventually got engaged. TinaBall isn't a sensible extrovert who flourishes on celebrity and media attention. Ball was a four-year varsity basketball letter winner at Alta Loma High School in Alta Loma, California where she was a All-Baseline League pick as a senior. ", She was unable to pursue her professional basketball career. 2 pick in the 2017 draft but later was drafted to Pelicans for Anthony Davis. She used to play in the women's team of the Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles. She mastered it quickly and by the time she was in high school, she became a four-year varsity basketball letter winner. "name": "What is Tina Ball's ethnicity? LaVar and Tina are married and blessed with three daughters, Lonzo Ball, LiAngelo Ball, and LaMelo Ball, all of whom are professional basketball players. But before the famous Ball family, what was Tina up to? LaVar claimed at the time that Tina couldn't speak but always had a pleasing expression on her face. Likewise, talking about her family background, Tina is the daughter of Robert Slatinsky and Catherine Slatinsky. Her height is 6 feet 1 inch (1.85 m) while its weight is unknown, just as its entire body is measured. Tina sadly had a stroke in February 2017 and was hospitalized for two and a half months. Mama Ball was interested in sports and athletics from an early age. Also, she had to rehab five times a week during that time. Lavar is the owner of the sports attire company Big Baller Brand in America. , { At her high school, she began playing at Alta Loma High School, where she showed enough talent to earn a place in the California State University basketball team, playing on the Golden Eagles Womens Team. Being fond of the sport since childhood, Tina soon became a good basketball player. In an interview with Complex Networks Magazine in 2022, Lavar was asked if he wanted his son to go with the Lakers and Lavar replied, Hell No., Due to his last experience with Lonzo over five years ago, Lonzo got drafted by their hometown Lakers. According to sources, both LaVar and Tina were playing basketball at the time they started dating. Tina Ball is turning 56 years old this coming December 11. Lavar was born in South Los Angeles, California, USA. } However, her businessman husband has a net worth of $10 million. After, her husband's retirement, Tina got an appointment at a central school as an athletic director at Vernon Middle School in Montclair, California. Tina soon began dating Ball and the two got married in 1996. Being born in early December, her zodiac sign is Sagittarius. One of the top basketball prospects at that time, she averaged 15.8 points and 18.2 rebounds. Mrs. Ball survived the stroke and currently living happily. The show that began airing in 2017 is quite popular among a variety of audience and has over 1 million viewers. Nbafamily Wiki is a FANDOM Lifestyle Community. Founded the Junior Basketball Association; Fathered and trained All-Stars LaMelo and Lonzo; Ball holds his school record for 316 rebounds; LaVar Ball's Personal Life. Currently, LaMelo is playing at the Charlotte Hornets as the point guard. Similarly, she did an average of 15.8 points and 18.2 rebounds. The real name of the Big Baller Brand founder is Christina Catherine Slatinsky and shares the sun sign Sagittarius. He was selected with the No. She played basketball at Cal State LA. In college, Tina represented her institution at the Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles Womens team. As a result, many fans are ignorant of Tina Ball's whole biography. "acceptedAnswer": { That said, with her blond hair and blue eyes, Slatinsky appears to be Caucasian. Caption: Tina with her family. Whilst at her school, Tina was an amazing basketball player. Likewise, Tina was born in Miami, Florida, United States of America, and holds American citizenship. Since he was four years old, LiAngelo has been training and working out. They are sometimes called the Kardashians of Basketball.. Tina Ball is the wife of Lavar Ball and was a former American basketball player, and they have been married for 25 years. She was, however, not involved in the court but worked at Vernon Middle School in Montclair as the athletic director. Tina Ball & Lavar Ball With Kids (Source: Daily Telegraph). Sadly, Lavar never played an official regular-season game in the NFL before his retirement in 1995 due to injury. Tina Ball married her college-time lover, LaVar Christopher Ball, in 1997. And there have been no arguments or scandals about Tina and Lavar yet. Tina Slatinsky is Catherine and Robert Slatinsky's daughter. They also have a 3B shoes line. Tina is a blonde-haired woman with blue eyes. Right from an early age, Tina took an interest in athletics and sports. Instead of playing for UCLA, he played for the BC Prienai of the Lithuanian Basketball League (LKL). Pin. Lavar Ball also spent a season playing football at Long Beach City College. It was a very challenging time for her and to add to the injury, she suffered a massive stroke in 2017. Her other sons are Lamelo and Liangelo Ball. Tina was born as Tina Catherine Slatinsky on the 11th of December, 1967. The first episode of the show was viewed by around 26 million people. The ballkeeps a low shape and weaves, sharing too much personal data on social media. She next moved to California State University and graduated from the institution in 1991. "@type": "FAQPage", Though her sons gained their professional training from LaVar Ball, Tina remained the driving force behind their hard work and determination. Tina Ball is an American woman famous for being a former Basketball player. } Regarding her relationship status, Tina is straight and in a marital relationship. } Thats our number, a billion, straight out of the gate. Currently, Tina is popular as the wife of LaVar Ball and mother of Lonzo Ball. Please logout and login again. Similarly, without wasting any time, he walked straight up to her and said, I dont know what were going to do, but were gonna be doing something!. But with the help of doctors and the emotional support from her family members, Tina slowly regained her speech and is in better condition now." Moreover, Ball grew up for the most part in Chino Hills. Tina Catherine Ball (ne Slatinsky; born December 11, 1967) is an American former college basketball player who played for the Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles women's basketball team and is the wife of media personality LaVar Ball. Tina Ball is an American woman famous for being a former Basketball player. Mr. Ball was born on 23 October 1967 in LA, California. But, according to Lavar, he saw Tina for the first time on the basketball court when he got transferred from West Los Angeles College to Cal State Los Angeles. Lavar Ball played basketball at Canoga Park High School before moving on to play collegiate basketball at West Los Angeles College, Washington State, and Cal State Los Angeles. Without wasting a second, he walked up to her and said, I dont know what were going to do, but were going to do something. Tina was born Tina Slatinsky on December 11, 1967 to Bert and Catherine Slatinsky. Herewith, it is understood that Tina earns a good part of her wealth from her sports career and business. Her granddaughter Zoey is named after her. As a result of Brand creativity and thoughtfulness, Tina has been named the Big Baller brands lead Brandner. After Tina suffered a stroke, her family was informed that she might pass away, turn into a vegetable, or never be able to walk again. He was a 6-foot-6, 270-pound tight end who spent several years on the New York Jets and Carolina Panthers practice squads in the mid-'90s. She finished her career ranking eighth in points at 935, fifth in field goal attempts at 1165, fifth in blocks at 60, eighth in field goals made 541, fourth in rebounds at 627, eighth in free throws made at 120, and seventh in free throws attempted at 208. Bob Slatinsky, the father of Tina, was fiercely protective of his daughter. We will update their profile as soon as more information becomes available. He also played against fifth-graders and his brothers when he was only a kindergarten student. The surname Ball is well-known among NBA and basketball aficionados. But before plunging deep into this article, lets head further with the quick facts first. ChristinaCatherine Slatinsky, better known as Tina Ball, was born in Chino Hills, California, United States, on December 12, 1967. She is usually together with her husband Lavar Ball, and the two are extremely famous in the sporting community. To add on, she was a standout basketball player in high school. He didnt hesitate to walk up to her and say, I dont know what we are going to do, but we are going to do something.. (Video below). "text": "Unlike her husband, Lavar Ball, who is of Black ethnicity, Tina belongs to the White Caucasian ethnic group. For most of her childhood, Tina lived in America. In 1995, Ball was a member of the practice squads of the New York Jets and Carolina Panthers, although he never appeared in an NFL regular season game. Tina Ball has a net worth of $4 million earned from her sports career. Soon, the famous couple was blessed with three kids and since then the cute little family is living happily. She was so good that it came as a surprise to all when she did not pursue the game professionally. From all appearances, the return of the attractive 6-0 and 145-pound blonde to college basketball has been as smooth as silk. Tina still suffers from Aphasia, and it is hard for her to retrieve words and speak. I dont have to pay for education. In addition to her work at Vernon Middle School, Tina also helped her husband to develop the BBB brand and has been able to make the brand a national entity. She used to be present at all the matches that her sons played before health complications stopped her from attending them. Tina Ball was born as Christina Catherine Slatinsky on December 11, 1967, in Miami, Florida to Robert and Catherine Slatinsky. After some days and weeks following the stroke, Tinas family was told she might die, but she survived. While Tina was resting and recovering in her parents home, Lavar took over various parental responsibilities. They first met on the basketball court. Currently, Tina is still recovering, and people are searching for her to know her regular progress. She played basketball at Cal State LA. Previously, he played alongside his brother LiAngelo in BC Prienal, but he plays for the Los Angeles Ballers of the National Basketball Association. He is also the father of a little girl named Christine Ball, born on July 22, 2018, with his high school sweetheart Denise Garcia. { Her birthday was December 12th, 1967. Tina has her own clothing line for men and women and makes a pretty good living out of it. LaVar and Tina met during their college year. She caught the attention of LaVar Ball because of her talents on the hardwood court. Tina Slatinsky is the daughter of Catherine and Robert Slatinsky. The Cal State Los Angeles women's basketball team, . From different sports options, Tina Ball took an interest in basketball. Email addresses. Still, she remained a part of the sport outside the court, and what she did is that she joined Vernon Middle School as an athletic director. At present, the dribbling champion is leading her normal life with her husband and children. Via Lonzo, shes got a granddaughter, Zoey, named after her. LaVar and Tina got married and have been blessed with three sons, Lonzo, LiAngelo, and LaMelo, all of whom are basketball players. Talking about her net and earnings, Tina is a former athlete. The Big Baller Brand (3B) includes clothing lines, for both men and women, under the line, Lady 3B and Girl 3B. Source: Instagram. Tina Ball is a graduate of California State University. You can show your admiration for Tina by leaving a comment below. We will update their profile as soon as more information becomes available. Tina, like LaVar, is an important part of her sons' basketball careers. Unfortunately, she could not pursue her professional basketball career and remained a part of the sports outside the court. Likewise, being a basketball player, she has dominated the court at both Alta Loma High School and at California State University. What is known about Tina is that she is a fighter. "I transferred from Washington State and saw her in the hall. Lonzos achievements have brought attention not just to himself but also to the family. According to media, Tina suffered a stroke on February 21, 2017, and underwent threatening skull surgery to relieve brain pressure; this probably explains why she stayed off the public eye until July. Tina's sun sign is Sagittarius. Lavar achieved significant success in this business in no time by training clients who desired fitness. She dominated the court effortlessly at Alta Loma High School in California and was a four-year varsity basketball letter award winner. ] LaVar Ball first saw Tina when she was playing basketball at college. Advertise with us The Ball family is involved in sports, business, company, and reality shows. Check it out here. On February 21, 2017 she suffered a stroke and subsequently was dealing with aphasia. She was paralyzed on her right side and suffered from aphasia, making it difficult to retrieve words when she attempted to speak. Lonzos dad raised some brown when he said Lonzo was already a better player than Stephen Curry and that he could have defeated Michael Jordan. Lavar Ball is the joint director and CEO of the sports attire company Big Baller Brand and the founder of the now-defunct Junior Basketball Association. Moreover, Tina represented her college Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles Womens team. LaVar later admitted that he was almost instantly attracted by Tina and the two just connected. Moreover, to pursue her career as a basketball player, she became part of Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles Womens team in college. Some online sources show Tinas estimated net worth is nearly $1.5 million. Zoey Christina Ball's father is the son of LaVar and Tina Ball and was born on August 27th, 1997. His father was a successful businessman and former football player. who grew up in Florida, was obsessed with basketball and never looked away. Interestingly, right at her first meeting with LaVar, LaVar told her that they would get married one day and have boys, thus starting a basketball family legacy. Ball was an athletic chief for Vernon Middle School. Zoey is Lonzo's first child with ex-girlfriend. The reality show documents the life of the Ball family, both personally and professionally. Tina Ball is the beautiful wife of LaVar Ball and the proud mother of three talented sons, including UCLA star Lonzo Ball. Privacy Policy NewsBreak provides latest and breaking basketball news in Marthasville, MO, find reports, scores, stats of your favorite local teams, players and games, and keep up with local basketball events and updates. In addition to her work at Vernon Middle School, Tina Ball has also helped develop the 3B brand, Big Baller Brand, which she with her husband LaVar set up. As far as her background is concerned, Slatinsky hasn't commented directly as to her ethnicity or family tree. Every night after training, her husband and kids would frequently pay her a visit. This concludes he is a responsible and loving father; lets move forward to learn more about the Ball family details. From these Tina has amassed a $1.5 million net worth. Family See Also Gallery:Ball Family All three of her children are amazing basketball players and by the look of things Basketball runs through their veins. The famous athletic director and former American basketball player, Tina Ball, was born on 11 December 1967 in Miami. This even affected her ability to speak. In high school, she averaged 15.8 points per game and finished her college career with a point total of 935 points, finishing eighth on the all-time list. Starting from an early age, she took an interest in sports and athletics. LaVar a former basketball player at Washington State and California State University who averaged 2.2 points and 2.3 rebounds added that he is planning on getting an insane shoe deal for his boys hopefully with Nike or any other big company. Also known as: Ms Tina Decoster, Tina Decoster. This makes Tina and Lavar's children Lonzo, Liangelo, and Lamelo biracial. "name": "Can Tina Ball talk clearly after her recovery from a stroke? Her birthdate was the 12th of December, 1967. They have their own reality television show Ball In The Family. Nicknamed Mama Ball retired from her sports journey with the Eighth rank in points, Fifth in blocks, Eighth in field goals. Also the wife of the famous businessman and former player Lavar Ball. The entire family is really into business and they are good at it. Right from an early age, Tina took an interest in athletics and sports. Here's everything you need to know about LaVar Ball's spouse Tina Ball. www.bigballerbrand.com Posts Tagged And you dont even have to give it to me all up front. Lavar is the owner of the sports attire company Big Baller Brand in America. (adsbygoogle=window.adsbygoogle||[]).push({}) She is also the mother of current NBA player Lonzo Ball. Before leaving the team after playing for four years, Tina scored 8th in scoring with 935 points, fifth in blocks with 60, fourth in rebounds with 627, and eighth in free throws with 120. After high school, she enrolled at California State State University. Since Tina is already an active human in sports, she is keen to maintain a healthy physique. Like a true backbone, Tina steadily supports her family in all their endeavours. According to LaVar, he first saw Tina on the basketball court after he was transferred from West Los Angeles College to Cal State Los Angeles. 1998), and LaMelo (b. He watched his sons games, attempted to start his Junior Basketball Association League, filmed their family reality show Ball in the Family, and other couples of things to promote the Big Baller Brand. Tina ended up having three children with LaVar. Significantly her father helped her a lot with her exercise to regain her speech. In 2017, she suffered a major stroke at the age of 49. https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/tina-ball-43453.php. In the unfortunate event that Tina suffered a stroke in February of 2017, the future of the Ball family was radically altered. By the way, Tina also found her soulmate at the basketball court. Lonzo is currently a point guard for the Chicago Bulls, while LiAngelo is a member of the Greensboro Swarm and LaMelo plays point guard for Charlotte Hornets. He was born to parents Maria and Anderson on October 23, 1967. Tina Ball and her husband LaVar have been able to make the brand a national entity, assisted by the exploits of her sons on the basketball court, LaVars tendency to stir up controversy, and their reality show, Ball in the Family, which is hosted on Facebook and records more than a million viewers. At present, even though, she does not play basketball by herself, Tina is working as athletic director at Vernon Middle School in Montclair, California. This is because Lavar personally trained him, and he also had a successful college basketball career with the UCLA Bruins. Tina Ball whose birth name is Christina Catherine Slatinsky was born on 11th December 1967 and is currently 54 years old. Current address. Early Life. Additionally, he earned a bachelor's degree from California University, Los . He shares the same birthday as me, which is November 24 . LaVar Ball and his sons are always in the spotlight; however, his wife, Tina Ball, a well-known basketball player herself, has for some time shied away from media attention outside of the business. Tina did not continue playing basketball professionally, but she continues to contribute to the sport by serving as the athletic director at Vernon Middle School in Montclair, California. He found this tall, beautiful girl walking down a hallway and asked her out immediately. Tina and Lavar are the perfect couples who complement each other in every way. }. Likewise, looking at her physical appearance, she has fair skin with blonde hair and blue pair of eyes. Birthday: December 11, 1967 (Sagittarius), Also Known As: Christina Catherine Slatinsky, children: LaMelo Ball, LiAngelo Ball, Lonzo Ball, education: California State University, Los Angeles, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdrVytbHe4A, https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/tina-ball-1/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_A3zJGQqAk, http://nbafamily.wikia.com/wiki/Tina_Ball, https://www.ieemedia.com/2018/01/ball-in-family-season-2-episode-6.html. Dhananjay Choudhary (Camtech Manufacturing Dubai) Wiki, Age, Biography, Career & More, Whitney Scott Mathers (Eminems Daughter) Wiki, Age, Boyfriends, Biography & More, California State University, Los Angeles (19871991). Standing at 6-foot-1, Tina was an amazing athlete during her schooling years. Likewise, in high school, she became a four-year varsity basketball letter winner. LaVars masterplan worked, and they indeed have a basketball family. Get Dutzow Deli & Restaurant can be contacted at (636) 433-2309. Thankfully, Tina is expected to make a full recovery and get back to her feet in no time. Her family was tremendously impacted, and they found it difficult to watch her go through what she did. Who is LaMelo Ball dating? Similarly, she became a promising basketball player in her career in sports. Lindy Waters III Bio: Family, Net Worth Who Is Aaron Rodgers Wife? She is currently recovering through her rehab therapy after a heart stroke in 2017. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. In addition, she and her husband live in an expensive house worth $5.2 million. With an impressive height of 1.85 m, LaMelo is known for his flashy play and ability to shoot the ball from deep. About Us The ball is from a reputable American family. I transferred from Washington State and saw her in the hall. is a former basketball player from the United States. After Lavars NFL retirement in 1995, he and his wife Tina moved to a wealthy Los Angeles neighborhood. Your login session has expired. Tina was born Tina C Slatinsky on December 11, 1967, to Bert and Catherine Slatinsky from Florida. Tina Ball has lived a joyful life with her darling husband. He is also the founder of Junior Basketball Association and is a successful man. After a few years of dating, the two eventually married and Tina raised her three sons, Lonzo, LiAngelo and LeMelo. Lavar Balls Wife, The Search Graph (Source: Google Trend). LaVar Christopher Ball and Tina Slatinsky welcomed their son Gelo Ball into the world in Anaheim, California, in the United States. LiAngelo is Lonzo's younger brother and plays shooting guard for the Greensboro Swarm. Ball is the daughter of Robert and Catherine Slatinsky. Young LiAngelo With His Father LaVar And Younger Brother LaMelo (Source: Twitter) As a promising basketball player, she dominated the court seamlessly both in Alta Loma high school and at California State University. While Lonzo is currently a point guard for the Los Angeles Lakers, LiAngelo is a shooting guard for the UCLA Bruins mens basketball team. After becoming leased from the famous New York Jets, LaVar practiced top level football as a right tackle with the London Knights of the League Tournament of American Football. Incidentally, Tina found her soulmate at the basketball court as well. The real name of the Big Baller Brand founder is Christina Catherine Slatinsky and shares the sun sign Sagittarius. To get my boys a little $100,000 car, thats nothing, said LaVar Ball, a personal trainer. He spent time with Tina, making her laugh and showing her how much he cared about her family. Her father's name is Robert Slatinsky and her mother's name is Catherine Slatinsky. American businessman and former basketball player Lavar Ball was born on October 23, 1967, in California, USA. Although Tina is over 53 years old, she is still extremely fit and athletic. Ball was one of top basketball prospects in high school and she chose to attend California State University, Los Angeles. } She went on to attend the California State University, Los Angeles.It was at college where she met her future husband, LaVar Ball, who was attracted to her "length;" Tina stands at 6'1''.Both were basketball players at the time and LaVar said that his future wife would "only produce boys." It consists of Chicago Bulls point guard Lonzo Ball, his daughter Zoey Ball, his parents LaVar and Tina Ball, and his brothers LiAngelo and LaMelo Ball. Tina Ball Family Members And Relatives The 6 feet 6 inches tall point guard is a native of Anaheim, California where he grew up. Lavar is also a former NFL player, so he coached his sons and talked about his sons career in a recent interview with Complex magazine. Later, she played for Golden Eagles Womens basketball team at California University in college. Like how morning shows the day, Tina played basketball and won games since high school. The brand includes a shoe line, a clothing line, and other merchandise. All three sons of Tina are astonishing basketball players, and her husband Lavar is an American businessman. The family even has its own web TV series called Ball in the Family. After graduating from the university, Tina began her career in sports. LaMelo is Lonzo's youngest brother and and plays point guard for the Charlotte Hornets. Tina Ball is turning 56 years old this coming December 11. This article will take you to Balls early life, professional career, marriage, children, net worth, and recovery from stroke. Also, the family chose to keep Tinas condition away from the public as long as possible. Together, they have three sons: Lonzo (b. She instantly rose to much fame after joining the Ball Family and, as of now, has made her presence marked uniquely. The balldoesn't reveal many things aboutTinaBall on his social media pages. The brand is for mens and womens apparel. American former college basketball player Christina Catherine 'Tina' Slatinsky was born in Miami, Florida USA on 11 December 1967, under the zodiac sign of Sagittarius. The second eldest son was also originally committed to playing for the UCLA Bruins but left University after being caught in the shoplifting controversy in China in November 2017. As the years went by, each of them started beating her on the court. Add your social media links and bio and promote your discounts, menus, events. LaVar played college football for Cal State Los Angeles. Despite the challenges he had to face dating her, LaVar was unfazed by her father's strictness. The fit and athletic lady later began suffering from different health issues. Wedding, Kids & Girlfriends. a 5-11 forward and center who averaged 19.9 points and 9.3 rebounds at Inver Hills Community College of Minnesota, and Tina Slatinsky, a 5-11 . "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "Answer", Tina Ball is the wife of Lavar Ball and was a former American basketball player, and they have been married for 25 years. Lavar met his wife in high school and married in 1996. Likewise, currently, she is the co-founder of Big Baller Brand which is a brand for mens and womens apparel and shoes. See more results for Tina Decoster. Lonzo is a member of the Chicago Bulls. When Lonzo was queried by a reporter about Tinas health, Lonzo preferred not to drag the family business into the media, saying, I dont have a comment on that, man, its a family thing., Suraj Nayak Wiki, Age, Height, Weight, Date Of Birth & More, We hope you enjoyed reading the latest biodata for Tina Ball (mother of Lonzo Ball), including her age, boyfriends, income, and more. Basketball fans and NBA followers are very familiar with the Ball family surname. It airs on Facebook and has been documenting the lives of the Ball family. He became theirpersonal coach, mentor, and tutor, training them from the . Nbafamily Wiki is a FANDOM Lifestyle Community. Being born in early December, her zodiac sign is Sagittarius. He participated in basketball and other sports while a high school student. She is the Vernon Middle Schools athletic director in Montclair, California, and a founding member of the celebrity sports company, Big Baller Company. Tina also appears in the familys Facebook reality show, Ball in the Celebrity. Because of the Ball families extensive involvement in the sport, their company, and reality show, they are sometimes named the basketball Kardashians.. This trio is really something, being the offspring of 6-6 former college football and basketball player LaVar Ball and 6-0 former college basketball player Tina Slatinsky Ball. Through Lonzo, she has one granddaughter, Zoey, who is named after her. She instantly rose to much fame after joining the Ball Family and, as of now, has made her presence marked uniquely. Christina Catherine Ball(neSlatinsky; born December 11, 1967) is an American former college basketball player who played for the Cal State Los Angeles Golden Eagles women's basketball team. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! As per some of the media sources, it is estimated and get to know is that the net worth of Tina Ball is $ 10 Million. This coming December 11, 1967 since childhood, Tina is the daughter of Robert and Catherine Slatinsky shares. And to add to the family chose to attend California State University every night after training, her businessman has! And the two got married in 1996 who flourishes on celebrity and media attention chose to attend State! The top basketball prospects in high school, Tina found her soulmate at the basketball court as well too personal... 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