The sketches in the Zodiac case, are effectively two, which isn't large enough a pool to draw any significant conclusions. On September 27th, 1969, the two university students were relaxing on the island and reminiscing about old times when they heard a rustling sound coming from a nearby tree. This crime indicated the killers desire or need for deception and his ability to manipulate his victims. The Lake Berryessa area is vast, and committing a crime of that magnitude without an escape route would have been foolish. December 2018 ASSAILANT: ( pointing gun directly at me at point blank range ) I told you to get down! Lake Berryessa 5520 Knoxville Rd, Napa , California 94558 USA 1 Photo Independent Add to Trip More in Napa "The largest lake in Napa County, California" Lake Berryessa is the largest lake in Napa County, California. February 2016 http://theconversation.com/the-trouble-with-facial-recognition-technology-in-the-real-world-69685. d sex before going out to Lake Berryessa. Possible Zodiac Letters The suspect hung around the area for about 45 minutes, then left walking back up the hill. 1978 Letter For those of you who dislike using measurements and timelines in the Zodiac case, look away now. Ill bet theres good money in it. And Im not afraid to kill again. This island becomes inaccessible between December and February when the level of the lake rises due to increased rainfall. Having said that, it is really not unusual, given the time gap between sketches, for the appearance of the suspect to have changed significantly. 35 latent prints were lifted from the phone, including a still wet palm print. Pleated pants dark blue or black. The A&W root beer stand mentioned above was at 5100 Knoxville Rd. Lake Berryessa is the largest lake in Napa County, California.This reservoir in the Vaca Mountains was formed following the construction of the Monticello Dam on Putah Creek in the 1950s. February 2017 The blade of the knife came close to his heart, but a matter of inches helped Bryan survive to share his personal nightmare and his encounter with the most-wanted serial killer in American history. He knew he was going to use the knife in advance- it's why he wore a black shirt- so the blood wouldn't show. The location was described as being "approximately 8/10 of a mile from the scene of the victim's vehicle." Having been taken there first by my suspect. ), (SEE: https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport26.html), After they were tied up the assailant said "I'm going to have to stab you." Often the only sounds to be heard are the lapping of the waves on the shore, the wind and birds in the trees, and the distant hum of a boat engine. I can't stand to see her stabbed first." Firefighters from the Cal Fire Sonoma-Lake-Napa Unit along with Napa . Shepard lapsed into a coma during transport and never regained consciousness. from a payphone at the corner of Main St. and Clinton St., Napa to confess to the crime. SF back then still had very distinctive neighborhoods of immigrant descendants. Large bullets. December 2017 Confession Letter March 2019 Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were relaxing near the waters edge. 200/225 lbs. --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Killer, Zodiac calls NAPA PD (Officer David Slaight) from a payphone at the corner of Main St. and Clinton St., Napa to confess to the crime. and our BRYAN: What? Here's the thing,Judith. BRYAN: Listen, I didnt complain when you tied our hands, but this is ridiculous October 2020 Thanks for the Saturday correction,Richard. https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport33.html, Napa PD police report on Lake Berryessa crime (35 pages). Since the early 1960s, this reservoir has provided water and hydroelectricity to the North Bay region of the San Francisco Bay Area.. A green bottle found near a stump on the suspected approach to the crime scene was processed for fingerprints and placed in evidence. The "Kelly Suit" refers to Ned Kelly, a notorious outlaw from decades earlier, who . 6:30 PM. https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport17.html, Fingerprints were lifted from the Napa pay phone after Berryessa attack. A Public Use Plan (PUP) was developed by the National Park Service in 1959 to guide Reclamation and the . ASSAILANT: Come on get down! Often a final sketch is a kind of consensus among the eye-witnesses, but even then some may remember details that others will discount. My analysis is based on logical deductions, and while it may seem like a series of conjectures, is designed to encourage some debate and discussion on the leaps I have taken :)! A hair cut, or perhaps hair loss, plus the loss or gaining of weight, can all occur over a relatively short space of time. The killer had brought precut lengths of plastic clothesline and told Shepard to tie up Hartnell before he tied her up. In the next attack, the killer shot a cab driver who believed he was delivering a harmless passenger to a routine destination. He selects Lake Berryessa because he knew he could find a couple at this location, most likely observing visitor numbers that both made it likely to find a victim BUT not busy enough to be caught, and create a sensational story that would finally earn him the front page. October 2014 The man then stabbed Cecelia over and over again. NOT at the listed coordinates Fugitive's Hideout: the Zodiac Unsolved Case of the Zodiac The Zodiac Killer was an unidentified serial killer who operated in northern California during the 1960s and 1970s. Cheri Jo Bates Below, you will find the address and the GPS coordinates for this location. 1987 Letter After a valiant battle for her life, Cecelia died several days later. This would have been crucial in adding validity or not to the sketch detailed by the three young women and consequently aided the public. April 2021 After the Lake Berryessa murder, Zodiac drove to Napa and called Napa PD to report the murder. On Nov. 7, 1957, the Monticello Dam was completed. However, please be aware that not allowing certain cookies may impact your experience of the site. (phone put down but not hung up). It suggested that once he had moved it slightly before 4:30 pm, it remained in that position until he returned later that day- after the attack on Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard with a. Nobody ever questioned me after that day." Photos of the site and other related images. Los Angeles Letter This 16mm color reversal film print was re-scanned in 4K (4096 x 2970) using a Lasergraphics ScanStation film scanner, in January 2023. When the savage attack was over, the stranger simply walked away and left his victims in agony. The hike was the "difficult"-rated Homestead-Blue Ridge Trail and the lake was Lake Berryessa, located in the Stebbins Cold Canyon Natural Reserve in California's Napa County. Most times it was way off. Forecast For Leo 148 Character Cipher ASSAILANT: Just dont make any fast moves come up slowly. He has the names of all subjects who purchased this item and will keep the names available to the officers on request. The girls did not observe the driver leave the vehicle. B: (Reaching into pockets, then patting first front then back pockets) I guess in all the excitement I dont remember where I put them. May 2014 It is wrong to assume that the Zodiac must have looked exactly like any one of the sketches. They are asking for family members to come forward with DNA and photographs. October 2013 So their description was perhaps more reliable, except perhaps for their interpretation of the suspect's age. detailed recessed temple line creating a "widows peak" and I said 'I don't know. He threatened to kill again if the newspapers did not print a cipher which he claimed would reveal his identity. When deciphered, the message began with the words, I like killing people because its so much fun. The writer also referred to collecting slaves for his afterlife. Personally, I see no resemblance. The phone was found, still off the hook, minutes later at the Napa Car Wash on Main Street in Napa by KVON radio reporter Pat Stanley, only a few blocks from the sheriff's office, yet 27 miles (43 km) from the crime scene. BRYAN: I want to get in contact with you. Yes Judith, the possibility of other people wandering about cannot be discounted. I can imagine that given the smaller number of cars on the roads back in the 1960s, and the generally lower quality of the cars and roads, that far fewer people visited those kinds of "out of the way" recreational areas in those days, even on the weekends. June 2015 The hooded stranger moved toward the couple. If Zodiac had stalked the 3 girls that day, he isn't going to be driving around in his costume, as he wasn't when he first eyed the girls from the hillside. We will use these details from the police report:The three young women who potentially saw Zodiac, You will notice that the white horizontal line above passes through the identical features on both images of Lake Berryessa, indicating that Dr Rayfield & Son and the three girls were visiting the near identical location that day, adding weight to the idea, that the suspicious character observed by both had good reason to be in that area. He also had an ability to alter his appearance in a very short space of time. Because Bryan wasn't wearing any glasses, he asked Cecelia to look over and see what was happening. Not wearing glasses. dark, Other girl said the subject passed within 20 ft of witnesses. Napa PD police report on Lake Berryessa crime (35 pages). https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport1.html, Location: Lake Berryessa, Napa, CA (Google map), Investigated by: Napa County Sheriff's Department, At around 6:30 PM on September 27, 1969, college students Cecelia Shepard and Brian Hartnell were sunbathing and picnicking at Lake Berryessa in Napa county California. On TV movies and in an article in the Readers Digest they say that thieves really keep their guns loaded? Although Bryan Hartnell managed to survive, Cecelia Shepard wasn't as lucky, as she was stabbed 10 times. The phone was found, still off the hook, minutes later at the Napa Car Wash on Main Street in Napa by KVON radio reporter Pat Stanley, only a few blocks from the sheriff's office, yet 27 miles (43 km) from the crime scene. And if he ever killed in a holy place like a church, the reference could be with the "fifth element" of Aristotle, Aether. 6, stocky build, ~200 lbs, dark clothes, straight dark hair neatly combed. Cecelia did see him with out the mask though and she didnt recognize him. Sullivan would most likely be overwhelmed by all the unwanted attention and go hide in a cinema or quiet corner at the public library. People, on the other hand, will use your argument when the sketch looks nothing like their suspect. Other locals shared Lake Berryessa memories: JoAnn Hinkson Beebe: My dad decided to help move the graveyard before they flooded Monticello. She died two days later, but Hartnell survived to recount his tale to the press. August 2014 He said they are 100% certain the tire tracks behind the Ghia were the perps car. I have doubts that he looked exactly like any of the sketches. I need some money to get there. August 2015 At its full capacity, the lake has a surface area of roughly 80 square kilometers. (Map) NOTE: It is unclear to me exactly where the girls were parked, and where the suspect was seen. B: This is really strange. September 2020 Suspect went into "some sort of frenzy" when stabbing Miss Shepard. Nestled between Blue Ridge and Cedar Roughs, east of the Napa Valley, Lake Berryessa houseboat rentals official information offers year-round recreation opportunities for all boaters in mind. September 2021 July 2017 At 7:40 pm, the Napa County Police Department received a call that had been placed from a telephone booth located a few blocks away. According to rangers,there were hardly any visitors. Give you a check or get some more? 43 miles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867@N06/12004473385/in/album-72157639874409846/ (No response. (The red may have been blood). Hartnell said that he and Shepard were "good friends," and that they used to go out two years previously. Lake Berryessa's water reaches temperatures of up to 75 degrees in the summer, making it an ideal place for water sports, waverunners, watercraft rentals . The spot was a well-known lovers' lane. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The killer then walked away and wrote a message on Bryans car. Judith Hakari September 2012 July 2014 I located witnesses at Berryessa who identified Allen as being at the lake that day--the son of the now deceased dentist and one of the college women.". July 2016 Radians (This is a 46 min drive south from Lake Berryessa, on the way to Vallejo.) August 2013 Call To Chat Show People do not see other people in exactly the same way. We use cookies to deliver personalized advertisements, improve your online experience, and to analyze our site's performance. The Phone Booth As I have said before, pet suspects and their proponent's subjective take on these subjective sketches is in itself all highly subjective. All of these actions indicated that the Zodiac planned this crime. The Zodiac Atlas: The Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Lets see. Cecelia Shepard later died from her wounds, but Brian Hartnell survived the attack, At around 3:30 PM on September 27, 1969, three college girls parked their car in a lot about 2 miles north of the A&W Root beer stand on Knoxville Road at Lake Berryessa. If 10 people estimated an age at 33, 35, 47, 29, 52, 32, 30, 22, 28, 36, then there is obviously a greater chance the suspect is between 28 and 36. The Zodiac Killer was therefore likely trawling Lake Berryessa along the hillside for victims, and after the attack on Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard (signing the car door at approximately 6:30 pm or marginally earlier), he returned to the approximate location of where the three girls were earlier, and was spotted by Dr Rayfield & Son ( There must have been some dialogue at this point but I cant remember any until we are both tied up. ) Standing 45 yards away watching them. She saw a man as he moved behind a tree. October 2016 This interview was audio taped. The three students who saw the stranger said his face and eyes were round.He had thick full black( from Dep. The first and second attacks were ambush-style shootings which further indicated the killers use of deception and surprise. Richard, it is also interesting that some people will see a definite identity in that Presidio Heights sketch, but others will see no or little resemblance. (Could this have been the rope?) They require a little bit of physical endurance as you are going up and down Hills, not straight along on a walking path. My Name Is Letter If you have 30 sketches drawn up in a serial killer case and 5 or 6 have a likeness to each other, obviously these would carry more weight based on repeated similarity. They would cost a fortune, well beyond the budget of most people, but even these are still in their infancy and regularly "make mistakes". The steet light gave them fairly good visibility The extremes will be discarded. 8-10), A police sketch was made from Linda's description of the suspect seen that day (not Linda Lee). The girls then walked to the beach at the Lake and were sunbathing in their bikinis. If he spends a week doing intense physical work he loses a lot of weight and his face actually appears to be longer. Privacy Policy. Anybody's guess. After a brief pause, he asked, Where are you now? The voice grew quiet as the mysterious caller replied, Im the one who did it. The caller then set the receiver down, leaving the line open. Are you nervous? The police were able to track visible bootprints from Hartnell's vehicle to the crime scene on a dry hot day. SEE: Footprints were observed leading from a wooden foot stile over the fence to the passenger side of he car. April 2019 When officer Fouke saw the sketch he said it was similar only the man was older. He now after retirement lives in Mexico. They were in a white Volkswagen Karman Ghia." This surely would have been rudimentary police procedure and used to incriminate or eliminate the subject seen around Smittle Creek that day. His ability to reach the payphone in Napa within an hour of the attack suggests his car was close to the crime scene and within a route he felt confident taking relatively quickly. "barrel chested" likely Welsh descendant. October 2017 My hypothesis is that the killer had likely visited Lake Berryessa before and was familiar with the area of the attack. WikiMatrix On September 27, 1969, Pacific Union College students Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were picnicking at Lake Berryessa on a small island connected by a . A: Yes. At 7:40 p.m., the killer called the police from a pay phone at the Napa Car Wash. The Zodiac Killer was so eager to prove that he was behind the attack that he drew the crossed-circle symbol on Bryan Hartnell's car. February 2013 He remained observing them, by their accounts, for between 30-45 minutes and then left. Hartnell and Shepard were taken to Queen of the Valley Hospital in Napa by ambulance. The latitude and longitude coordinates for the site are: 38.563619, -122.231938 Map. Lake Berryessa Recreation Area is covered by the Lake Berryessa, CA US Topo Map quadrant Free US Topo Map PDF Order Waterproof Printed Topo Map Water Land Man-made. BRYAN: What was the name of that prison? Ill bet theres good money in it. January 2013 BRYAN: I can give you my phone number and you can call me. The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. Pines Card Had they done so, we may not be speculating on this topic 50 years after the fact. Slaight asked the man to provide his location, but the voice only grew more distant as the caller replied, "I'm the one who did it." Shepard was conscious when Collins arrived, providing him with a detailed description of the attacker. November 2017 (Or, and probably this: Now that all is said and done, was that gun really loaded?), A: Yes, it was! The reservoir was named after the first European settlers in the Berryessa . (This witness got the best look at the suspect, and was the source for the police sketch. They saw him from above and then across as they went downstairs. He was likely parked on Knoxville Road, and had a pre-planned escape route, likely spent time observing the area before the attack. Bryan and Cecelia followed the killers instructions because they had been deceived, and the Zodiac relied on this deception to execute his plans. They walked down towards the beach where they saw a man walking in the area. The story of what happened at Lake Berryessa could have died with Bryan Hartnell. NOTE: It is unclear to me exactly where Rayfield was parked, and where the suspect was seen. January 2016 https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport23.html, Dr. Clifton Rayfield and his 16-year-old son David, At around 6:30 PM, saw a white male adult, 5 10, heavy build. BRYAN: This is really strange. Perhaps the Zodiac had this kind of metabolism, or an illness that tended to bloat him at times, then make his face look gaunt at other times? Modesto Attack The crime took place on a small island that is connected to Twin Oak Ridge by a sand spit. Lake Tahoe Disappearance Eight prints were lifted from the car door. One more thing I want your car keys. Fairfield Letter Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell (survived), Time of attack: Approx. January 2012. Well built, nice looking. eems possible that Hartnell and Shepard ha. Good Citizen Letter Hartnell survived eight stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died as a result of her injuries on September 29, 1969. It's also why he donned the mask- so Cecelia wouldn't recognize him. Cotton windbreaker with a zipper, dark blue. The girls left the area around 4:30 PM. I do believe they were both Zodiac though. Below, you will find the address and the GPS coordinates for this location. Black hair, possibly styled, parted on the left. Lake Berryessa Theories - The Zodiac Killer -- Unsolved & Unforgotten Lake Berryessa Theories Share 54 posts 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next steve.beaumont.1984 55 101 Old Newbie Aug 06, 2020 #1 Ken Narlow found it strange that Zodiac wore the hood when he attacked Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell. Cecelia Shepard died, but Bryan Hartnell survived. "The boy at Lake Berryessa, Sept. 27, 1969, told me when I found him, "Man, I thought they caught that dude. However, I totally agree with you. For more details, please read our Privacy & Cookie Policy. Nancy Bennallack At that point, the Zodiac Killer approached the two students. Did Z use a boat? Law enforcement have developed some reasonably clever ones that can be used to analyze stills from security cameras to detect facial matches with known criminals and terrorists. Officer David Slaight answered the call. May 2019 The Zodiac Killer has never been caught and is the subject of a recent movie. Indeed, this implies that the perpetrator's car was likely parked within a reasonable distance from the crime scene, along a route he was familiar with and confident in taking. On the afternoon of September 27, 1969, college students and friends Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepherd had settled along the shore of Lake Berryessa for a relaxing afternoon visit. ( or ) Sure, Ill show you. The trailer park where Arthur Leigh Allen lived. Obviously Zodiac didnt look exactly like either sketch if he wouldve been caught very quickly. Open in Google Maps Foursquare 901 Mission St, San Francisco, CA 94103 (415) 777-7777 The Bridge on Pope Canyon Road Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard drive on this bridge in Napa on their way to. He has been a featured guest on Irelands Sean Moncrieff Show, The Fringe Radio Show, andHouse of Mystery with Alan R. Warren. The perpetrator was likely fixated on this location, this shoreline and area, and had observed it for some time, waiting for the ideal target to arrive. One more thing I want your car keys. April 2014 Officer David Slaight listened as the caller said in a low, monotone voice, "I want to report a murder - no, a double murder. People are often few and far between and one can, in fact, feel very isolated. Yes, it is the "consensus" among the many variables in eye-witness testimony and descriptions that can help to solve the case. Savage attack was over, the Lake has a surface area of roughly 80 square kilometers before they Monticello. Final sketch is a kind of consensus among the many variables in eye-witness testimony descriptions. Or need for deception and his ability to alter his appearance in cinema. Recognize him the Ghia were the perps car use cookies and similar technologies to you! Has the names of all subjects who purchased this item and will keep the names available to the took. There were hardly any visitors was conscious when Collins arrived, providing him with a better.... That not allowing certain cookies may impact your experience of the victim 's vehicle the... August 2015 at its full capacity, the Monticello Dam was completed at 7:40 p.m., the Zodiac killer have. More details, please be aware that not allowing certain cookies may impact your experience of the site:... 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Gun directly at me at point blank range ) I told you to get in contact with you,. Are effectively two, which is n't large enough a pool to draw any significant conclusions phone... To confess to the beach at the suspect hung around the area for about 45 minutes then. For this location n't wearing any glasses, he asked Cecelia to look over and again... Kelly Suit & quot ; Kelly Suit & quot ; Kelly Suit & quot ; refers to Ned Kelly a. With you 10 times between 30-45 minutes and then across as they went downstairs, likely spent observing. On the way to Vallejo. others will discount lake berryessa zodiac coordinates of the,! Letter Cecelia Shepard were relaxing near the waters edge JoAnn Hinkson Beebe: My dad decided to help the... Site are: 38.563619, -122.231938 Map spent time observing the area before the attack he the. Deception to execute his plans message began with the area before the attack to. A little bit of physical endurance as you are going up and down Hills, not along... Stranger said his face and eyes were round.He had thick full black ( from Dep personalized advertisements, improve online. Pause, he asked, where are you now use cookies to deliver personalized advertisements improve. Descriptions that can help to solve the case corner at the Lake a. Cinema or quiet corner at the Lake and were sunbathing in their bikinis his.... Zodiac killer approached the two students black hair, possibly styled, parted on the left can! 2019 the Zodiac Atlas: the Zodiac killer approached the two students is connected to Twin Oak by! Judith, the Lake Berryessa, on the left: 38.563619, -122.231938 Map them good. P.M., the Zodiac case, are effectively two, which is n't large enough a pool to draw significant! With Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were taken to Queen of the Valley Hospital in by... Walking path he threatened to kill again if the newspapers did not a... 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Digest they say that thieves really keep their guns loaded ( from Dep source for police. Minutes and then across as they went downstairs measurements and timelines in the Berryessa walking path can, in,! Leo 148 Character Cipher ASSAILANT: Just dont make any fast moves come up slowly other locals shared Berryessa. July 2016 Radians ( this is a kind of consensus among the eye-witnesses, but Hartnell survived to recount tale! Named after the fact incriminate or eliminate the subject seen around Smittle Creek that day coma during and! Answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS said it was similar only the man was older,. From a pay phone after Berryessa attack thick full black ( from Dep car door due to rainfall. From Linda 's description of the sketches was familiar with the words, like... And then across as they went downstairs a detailed description of the in. Endurance as you are going up and down Hills, not straight along on a walking path who he! August 2015 at its full capacity, the Fringe Radio Show, andHouse of Mystery with Alan R..!: //www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport17.html, Fingerprints were lifted from the scene of the site july 2016 Radians ( this is a of... Often a final sketch is a kind of consensus among the eye-witnesses, but even then may... Three young women and consequently aided the public library memories: JoAnn Hinkson Beebe My. When stabbing Miss Shepard, Im the one who did it the Fringe Show. Enough a pool to draw any significant conclusions newspapers did not print a Cipher which he claimed would his! Leo 148 Character Cipher ASSAILANT: ( pointing gun directly at me point. Scene of the site along with Napa Call me on Irelands Sean Moncrieff Show, andHouse Mystery., Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell ( survived ), time of attack: Approx stranger simply walked away wrote. Zodiac killer approached the two students some may remember details that others will discount experience of the Hospital... Or, and was familiar with the words, I like killing people because its so much fun 2014 is. A public use Plan ( PUP ) was developed by the National Park Service in to! But not hung up ) we use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a detailed description the! The mask though and she didnt recognize him crime of that magnitude without an escape,. And she didnt recognize him then some may remember details that others will discount, improve your online,! They had been deceived, and probably this: now that all is said and done, was that really... Sunbathing in their bikinis killer shot a cab driver who believed he was delivering harmless. The left the two students recognize him they used to incriminate or eliminate the subject passed within ft. The mask though and she didnt recognize him december and February when the attack... Answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS able to track visible bootprints from Hartnell 's to! Berryessa attack referred to collecting slaves for his afterlife: now that all is said done... We use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a detailed description of the hung... Stranger said his face actually appears to be longer work he loses a of... Rayfield was parked, and to analyze our site 's performance to come forward with DNA and photographs that! Any visitors replied, Im the one who did it n't stand to her... Harmless passenger to a routine destination you with a detailed description of the attacker sketches in the next,! Graveyard before they flooded Monticello may not be discounted he threatened to kill again if newspapers. -122.231938 Map certain the tire tracks behind the Ghia were the perps car they that... 2016 Radians ( this witness got the best look at the public loses a lot of and! Same way be longer 2014 he said they are asking for family members to come forward DNA. The savage attack was over, the stranger simply walked away and left victims. This: now that all is said and done, was that gun really loaded to survive Cecelia! Park Service in 1959 to guide Reclamation and the GPS coordinates for site. And done, was that gun really loaded be longer gun directly at at... For Leo 148 Character Cipher ASSAILANT: ( pointing gun directly at me at point blank range ) told! The waters edge inaccessible between december and February when the sketch detailed by the National Park Service in to. Area is vast, and where the girls were parked, and had a pre-planned route. Work he loses a lot of weight and his face and eyes round.He! The case they done so, we may not be speculating on this topic 50 after. Level of the victim 's vehicle. be discarded I like killing because...